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Oct 2415 min read

Dreams, Medical AI, and Ultrasounds: A Signals Mashup


In this special episode, we explore a "Signals Mashup," combining three real-life stories that could shape our future. Though we could pick anything, we all wound up picking signals from healthcare! We discuss an AI tool that predicts patient outcomes, a device enabling communication through lucid dreams, and a groundbreaking ultrasound treatment for cancer. As we connect the dots, we uncover potential future scenarios where these technologies intersect, imagining advanced healing methods and enhanced communication during medical treatment. We also consider the downsides of constant health monitoring and the importance of unplugging. Join us as we stretch our creativity, explore possibilities, and contemplate the ethical implications of these emerging technologies. What actions can we take to prepare for this potential future?





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Episode Transcript:

Sue: Welcome to Signal Shift, by Horizon Shift Lab. We're your hosts, Lana Price, Raakhee Natha, and Sue Chi. Each episode, we explore the latest signals in technology, culture, and society, uncovering insights that will impact our daily lives in the future. Join us as we shift perspectives, explore possibilities, and delve into real changes in our world. Curious to learn more? Go to horizonshiftlab.com.


Sue: Hello and welcome to Signal Shift. This is Sue and I've got Raakhee and Lana here and we have got a little treat for you today. 


So for those of you who are new to the podcast, hello, and every week we discuss the trends and signals that we believe will shape our future, what steps we might take as a result. But usually every week we pick a specific theme. So we picked experiential food, the future of robots, for example. 


But today we wanted to introduce you to the idea of the “Signals Mashup.” And it's called different things, sometimes you can call it a swap. The Institute of the Future calls this the Reveal Unexpected Possibilities exercise. 


And we can use it for a few different reasons. The first is to unlock creativity in your brain to maybe find some surprising connections between seemingly unrelated signals and to build a picture of a future that we may not have seen before. And so as you see, this is no theme intended. We just picked the favorite things that we've seen recently and we talk about it.


So for our listeners, here's how it goes: so each of us is going to share a signal like we usually do, except it could be on any kind of topic that we choose. We're going to share some key points about it that are sourced from actually our database, which now has hundreds and hundreds of signals that we've built up over the past year. And so after we all go, we're going to combine them all and see what kind of unexpected possibilities they might bring.


[2:22]


Lana: This is Lana, I'll go for it. So my signal is -- I really kind of didn't want to do an AI one, but I did anyway. But this is an AI tool called Chartwatch, and this is in the medical industry. 

And so researchers at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto just published a study about this tool called Chartwatch, which is an in-house early warning system. And so this tool has shown remarkable results, a 26% drop in the number of unexpected deaths. So it's like a remarkable output of their study. But so Chartwatch basically is a system that monitors 100 inputs from the patient's medical records. It's like vital signs, like heart rate and blood pressure, but also lab test results. And so it's monitoring these inputs, and every hour, it makes a dynamic prediction about whether the patient is likely to improve or deteriorate.


And so an example is that a patient came in with a cat bite and a fever. And so the patient appeared fine, but Chartwatch flagged that the blood work had extremely high white blood cell count. And so it was able to very quickly diagnose cellulitis, which was like a bacterial skin infection. And so because of this early warning, the patient received very prompt antibiotic treatment. So it was a very rapid diagnosis, like a monitoring, a rapid diagnosis, and then a rapid result in their treatment. 


And so I think this, it’s a study. It was only in one hospital, and needs to be further explored. But there are a lot of possibilities here about, I think there's a lot about what AI is doing to different industries, especially creative fields, for example, or computer programmers. 


But, AI in healthcare decision making is showing some real promise and a shift towards preventative and predictive healthcare models. And so yeah, we could see a couple of implications for this in terms of healthcare staff shortages or what this could be like in rural settings. But anyway, so that's just to say, that's the signal, and I am curious what you two have.


Sue: All right. So that is one on AI, healthcare, prevention, rapid treatment. Raakhee, what do you have for us?


[5:36]


Raakhee: Okay. So it's also the technology and the human body space. So there's some synergy there. So there's a company called REMspace, R-E-M, like R-E-M sleep state, right? They call REMspace, they’re a startup in California. And in the last week or so, there has been a few reports come out from the company, I guess, not verified. So yeah, we got to take this lightly. There's a lot that has to be investigated here. But this is the company's findings and what they say they've achieved, right? 


They operate with lucid dreams. And lucid dreams in themselves are a little bit of a grey area, because it's not REM, it's not deep REM, it's an experience, right? And that experience is basically when you are dreaming, but you know you're dreaming. You are aware. You have metacognition. You're like, oh, that's me dreaming. And we've all experienced it somewhere along the line. It's not typical. It doesn't happen too often, but most people have experienced it maybe once, right? And that's lucid dreaming.


And then there's a whole wacky Hollywood movie experience of, oh, you can control lucid dreaming and you know, all of that stuff. And this company does play somewhat in its space through both technology, maybe taking certain substances, et cetera, but speaking to the power of that sort of state and what can happen. 

Because for example, from a therapeutic point of view, if you're having a dream and yet you're in control, you can change the narrative, the ending, and you can maybe process something psychologically, right? Like a different ending because you're in control. So there's a lot to be said about this. 


But either way, the main signal is that they have some sort of a sensor that decodes language when you're sleeping in a lucid dreaming state and kind of speaks back to the sensor. And the sensor speaks to the person, right? But what they had in this particular experiment is two people who are sleeping, they are in a sleep state. They are apart from each other, they’re connected to this machine and in essence to each other through this sensor, this machine that these guys have developed.


And the one person is sleeping, they have a dream, the message goes to the sensor. The sensor is like, okay, decodes it and says, let me send back a code, a word, and see if there's communication. And it does. And this person then dreams that, uses that word in their dream, like, say I say ice cream. I'm the machine. And I'm like, ice cream, I tweet it back, the person is having the dream, picks up the word ice cream. Ice cream gets used in the dream, the person confirms on waking that they also heard, you know, ice cream, like they remember ice cream. 


Taking this even a step beyond, once that happens, then the machine kind of connects to the second person, right, and creates a sort of triangle almost and says, like, okay, can you sense what this person picked up? And the other person also did. And technically, it created a bridge for communication between both of them with that same word, ice cream. 


And so the whole point of what, you know, the article that's been released is that they've achieved sort of, inter-dream kind of communication between two individuals. Yes, using a sensor tool, technology, but the conversation is around the ability for us to communicate with each other in our dream states. And I will leave it at that. 


So lots more to be investigated, it’s very early stages, you know, like I said, a lot to be verified also, but the story is public, it's out there, that's what they're saying has been done.


Sue: All of our faces, like jaw-drapped, big white eyes at this story, yeah, and I definitely have at least two Hollywood movies in mind as you were talking about this. 


[9:24]


Sue: Okay, so I'll go with the third signal, and it is interesting, we could choose any topic, but mine is also in the realm of health care. 


And I do have to say it started because I was watching a K-drama where-- I won't say which one it is-- but there is, you know, the primary actress is sick and basically gets an ultrasound to destroy a tumor in her brain. 


Really interesting. The following week, I saw an article about a patient in West Michigan that received ultrasound treatment for liver cancer, and it was only the second hospital in Michigan to do it. I looked it up, it's a thing called histotripsy that is FDA approved now specifically for liver tumors starting at the end of last year. And basically it takes 58 beams of ultrasound to focus on targeted tumors, and the video rendering of this is really crazy. It basically liquefies the tumor through all these micro bubbles, like heats it up, liquefies it, and your body discards it afterwards.


It's non-invasive, and the recovery is very quick, you know, and so right now it can be used on liver, but there are many more applications that are coming.

There's also a very similar type of ultrasound treatment that is going through clinical trials to actually treat glioblastoma, the brain cancer, in some patients in a clinical trial. So they are trying all these different type of ultrasound treatments on tumors of all kinds with the hope that this could be applied to many cancers. 


And not just that, it's really interesting. This other treatment, it's called HIFU, High-Intensity Focused Ultrasound, and it's treating things like uterine fibroids, tremors from Parkinson's disease. I also saw it's like treating rejuvenation of your skin, so lots of different treatments. 


And I just thought it was really interesting because last week we talked about experiential food and the idea of sound as a way to experience food differently. This is ultrasound in a different way for therapy, for cancer treatment. 


The most astonishing thing for me was that not only was it non-invasive, but it didn't destroy any of the other surrounding tissue. You get very clear margins when you do histotripsy. And it actually shows signs that it helps your body start to attack other cancer cells. And so it sort of creates this other kind of immune response in your body, which they're trying to study a little bit more about.


And so the signal I found was in West Michigan, but the more I looked for it, there are different medical centers all over the country that are quote unquote saying they're using this pioneering invention. But soon enough, it's not going to be pioneering anymore because there's going to be so many more advancements, just hopefully a lot more usage around the country and around the world. So I thought that was really exciting.


[12:42]


So interesting. So now we're at the point where we're going to mash up these signals together. And we have the benefit, at least from some of the signals being in the same space. But hopefully we'll still come up with some more creative futures of what this is pointing us towards.


Raakhee: Yeah, I was thinking like one of the things that was coming up to me was putting us under anesthetic, right? And going through the whole process and coming out and going under anesthetic can be dangerous for some people, depending on lots of different factors, like even like the amount of blood alcohol you have in you. If you lied to the doctor about that and you go under anesthetic you're in trouble, right? 


So what about doing certain things in lucid dreaming? Because it affects us psychologically differently, right? And so imagine, Lana, that you've got this interventional tool, but the person is sleeping, right? And so in lucid dreaming state, you've got this great tool that's checking on what's happening with the body and certain interventions, like maybe that ultrasound is done in that lucid dreaming state so that the impact is different and the person isn't as wakingly scarred or I don't know, some sort of other numbing thing. I mean, I'm just imagining and playing here. 


But I can definitely see that these things could come together, right? To facilitate healing in any state or even a possibility of this machine, we have these machines monitoring our health and kind of preventing things. And then we might have to go through a treatment like the ultrasound and maybe the lucid dreaming is what happens later after the surgery or whatever, you know, at night.


And again, it's like some healing thing and sound healing that happens, but through dreams, I don't know. And that's where my brain is going.


Sue: Yeah, I'll jump on that, Raakhee. You know, I'm thinking about when you go in for any kind of treatment, you know, you have loved ones who are maybe there with you, supporting you, like, is there a way they can actually do it while you're on, exactly to your point, to be able to communicate? Yeah, signs of healing, signals of healing. There might be other ways to then transmit health, you know, during that process. 


Yeah, it would be interesting if this becomes a treatment option for you afterwards, because you know that the mental and the psychological connection is also so important for how quickly you recover from something like that. 


What would be amazing is if, you know, you create whatever this device is or like a pod of some sort, where you don't have to physically be in the same room, where you can be in other places and know at what time you'll have this treatment or you'll be asleep or, you know, some some other state of consciousness that you can actually do it together. That would be really, that would be really cool.


[15:40]


Lana: I'm going to play with the, I'm going to try to do like, I don't know, devil’s advocate or try to see some of the other sides. I mean, I think if we're talking about, you know, sensors while we're awake and while we're asleep, right, and they're sort of this, imagine like kind of an an hourly update on like, what's going on with your body. And then even when we're sleeping, you're getting messages, right. And so I can almost imagine, you know, then sort of this ultrasound like, you know, treatment is even kind of like more stuff pinging you, right. 


So I can imagine like this kind of goes to some of things we've talked about before, but like device-free, like, you know, maybe our Sunday sabbatical if you turn off your phone, you're also just like taking a break and you're like turning off all the sensors. And you turn off the sleep machine and you, you know, or maybe just quiet, maybe just, you know, kind of like, because I could see it's on one hand, super empowering, right, super like, you feel like you have a lot of control because you know, like, all your vital signs, you’re monitoring, you know, we're like eating right, and there's people who already live that way. And then I could also seeing it, see it being potentially exhausting. 


And so we might need to like super unplug, but, you know, that's not just, that's to say, every, everything will be, every advancement has that, which it has its benefits. And then we also need to, you know, take a step back as well. So that's what I'm, that's what's coming up for me.


Sue: Yeah, thanks, Lana. So some people might have these pods for extra communication, others might get, you know, other devices where you can basically cut out communication for your phone or your purse, you know, might just have outfits completely like that, where you, where you put those on when you really want, make sure you have no other digital communication going on. 


Yeah, so as we leave our signals mashup, curious, are there any action steps, any other further probes you might be looking into in this kind of future?


[18:32]


Lana: Yeah, I think, you know, I guess two things, I mean, one is it's funny, like we, it's important. I mean, it is important for us to, I'm thinking about the Chartwatch, like in the interim, when we're not at a hospital and like plugged into a machine. It is important to like, do our annual checkups, right, like to know where to take those blood tests to know what our vital signs are, to monitor our health. But we have to do that in a super, you know, proactive way, like so, this kind of just another reminder, like those things are important, they do tell us information that helps us make informed decisions. So just like another reminder to myself, like I need to make my appointment. 


And yeah, I think that, you know, the dreaming one, I think, I mean, dreams are so powerful. And so that is like a really exciting signal and the power of the subconscious. And so, you know, just paying more attention to like what, you know, what happens in our dreams and the messages that are coming through from ourselves, right? These are not external messages, someone’s not shipping in ice cream to me, like there are things I'm trying to say, that I'm trying to alert myself. So I guess both of those, I think what's coming up for me is like being more attuned to, so that maybe I don't need to have a device, just listen and see what I'm trying to say. So that's what's coming up for me.


Raakhee: Yeah. I think it's the same. And I think, yeah, Lana, I appreciate, yeah, I think you're showing us that other side of it, because it's true, like we're playing with, you know, it's hopeful, yes, absolutely. And it's exciting. But it raises a lot of things we have touched on in other episodes of other things, which is our rights around it, et cetera, right? If somebody is in some sort of unconscious state, but they can communicate in lucid dreaming, but they haven't made that choice consciously before, like a Do Not Resuscitate, which we've spoken about before. Here's a Do-Not, like whatever, Lucid-Dream-Me, right? But do you get to make that choice, or does the hospital make that choice, like who decides that if you're already in that state where you haven't, you know? Like, are these going to be the things we're going to be talking about in 15 years and 10 years? And saying, wow, you know, who, yeah, so where do rights live. And I think, yeah, the part of where it's us talking to our dreams, like you said, Lana is really empowering. But what is scary is then is, well, who can communicate and who can gain control and all of that stuff. And that's where the Hollywood movies, I think, are coming up for me as well, Sue. So yeah, I think, I think it's so unknown, right? There's so much here. It's very hopeful, but there's definitely some scary stuff because I don't know that we know enough about these realms. It's so interesting.


Sue: Yeah, definitely to follow up with that, I think the things I'm taking away are, one, this is why we do signal scans, because we can see where the future is going and how we might need to prepare for that. 


So for me, I think two things I want to prepare for, one is just to heighten up my data privacy and security and just understand who I'm giving permission to and for what. And everything else, you know, I might not have control over at this point, but at least of the things I really want, really got to get that in order. 


And then two is, yeah, I think I wasn't looking for these signs of medical advancement. You know, it just caught my eye and it does give me a lot of hope. And I think, again, Lana, to your point of just being proactive, there is so much research out there. There are so many clinical trials happening, and it's kind of upon us to advocate for ourselves to see where we can get these kinds of treatments, understand their efficacy or their possible side effects too. And you know, the older we get, the more important this becomes. So that's definitely a lesson for our next checkups.


Well, thanks everyone for listening. We went through our signals mashup, learned a couple of new things, really exciting. And yeah, just again, stretching our creativity and imagination of both what's possible, what concerns we might have for the future. And so, yeah, so stay tuned for our next episode where we come back with a theme, see how it will be different. And if you like this episode, please go to horizonshiftlab.com, leave us a review or yeah, just let us know what topic you'd like us to cover next. Thank you and we'll see you next time. Bye for now.


[23:36]

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