top of page
Aug 1516 min read

Mall Metamorphosis: Shopping Spaces Transformed

Updated: Sep 25



This week we're exploring the unexpected evolution of shopping malls. We stumbled upon some fascinating signals -- from Asian-American cultural hubs to... well, let's just say an unusual activity involving sticks and imagination. We're seeing parking lots transform into community parks and wondering what "going to the mall" might mean in 10 years. It's not just about shopping anymore; it's about connection, culture, and reimagining spaces. Join our conversation, share your thoughts, and let's envision the future of these iconic spaces together. Who knows? You might discover something as surprising as we did.





Selected Links:



Related Resources:



Episode Transcript:

Sue: Welcome to Signal Shift, by Horizon Shift Lab. We're your hosts, Lana Price, Raakhee Natha, and Sue Chi. Each episode, we explore the latest signals in technology, culture, and society, uncovering insights that will impact our daily lives in the future. Join us as we shift perspectives, explore possibilities, and delve into real changes in our world. Curious to learn more? Go to horizonshiftlab.com.


Hello, everyone. Welcome to Signal Shift. This is Sue, and I'm here with Raakhee and Lana.


So this signal starts as many discussions these days do -- with Elon Musk. And in our first episode, we discussed a drive-in diner and charging station for Tesla in Los Angeles. And it got us thinking, well, what has plenty of parking for charging in areas to multitask? And that's the mall, which is today's topic. And then later, we spoke about the future of play. We also discussed the mall as a space that could be reimagined mainly for play. So here we are.


And in America, the mall has been really ubiquitous. It started in the 1960s. I learned that an average of three new shopping centers were created every day in the United States. Fast forward, it exploded in the 1980s and even into the 1990s. So we've got these things called “mega malls”. It's got shopping, arcades, movies, even roller coasters, aquariums. I mean, you name it. 


But since then, the peak era of the mall has passed, especially with the pandemic. In the US, malls have fallen 17% year on year, from 2017 to 2022. But having said that, there's still malls in different kinds of forms. You've got high-end retail, high-end malls, night markets, underground malls, you even have malls in the metaverse. And so, you know, there's also zombie malls, like that is a whole topic of fascination, you know, of course, maybe due to some of the pop culture stuff related to Stranger Things, The Last of Us, some of these shows. 


But we're here to talk about what the mall means to us, and what we think the future has in store for the mall. So I'm curious what you found in this week's signals. Lana, how about you? What did you find?


Lana: Yeah, so I love this topic. And, you know, just earlier this week, saw an article in the Wall Street Journal about the decline of department stores and learned that, you know, major department stores now occupy less than half of all anchor spaces at enclosed shopping malls. And there are more than 500 vacant department stores nationwide. And so, it used to be that these were the anchors that drove traffic to the mall, but now they're like the weakest drivers, right, of the reason why people would go to a shopping mall. 


And so, I wanted to take this opportunity because I'm in Portland. And I wanted to go visit the mall and see what it was like. Because the mall here at the Lloyd Center, it was opened in 1960, like you said, Sue, at that early stage of the American Mall. When it opened, it was the largest, it claimed to be the largest in the country. So it is huge. And it has four anchors, and they've all closed. So it's like a Sears, Nordstrom, Macy's and Marshall's. And so it's a ginormous enclosed mall with four vacant anchors.


And over the last few years, they've been working on the plan for, you know, then the future of this site, the Lloyd Center Mall. And recently, they put forth like a super ambitious, basically transformation, right, where they would take this 30 acre lot and essentially make it into a mixed-use neighborhood, like break it down and have apartments and retail and very walkable and roads. And they worked with the community to put forth this design. And it's going to cost like over a billion dollars, and it'll take like 10 years, at least, right, to see forth this vision. 


And so I think when I went to the mall, you know, so there's two things I wanted to share about the experience of going there. But one is that, I mean, we're really in the in-between, you know, like this idea of like a future and a vision that we're that we're working towards. But living in the space where we are now, where like it's clearly declined. Yet they're going to keep the mall open, right, they want to sustain the businesses as they're figuring out what they're doing and putting these plans in place.


And so we saw some, really a mix of, you know, vacant stores, stores that were closed on Wednesday at five. But also like really cool independent businesses that they've lured in; business owners with cheap rent and a short term lease. And it's very Portland, right, it's like tattoo artists or like a puzzle shop or you know, like a comic bookstore. 


And so one of the things that I wanted to share about a signal that I found in real life was that where my husband and I went to the mall. It’s actually really fun. There's there's a college there, which is really cool that they set up. So that was another thing that was neat. 


But we're walking around and we passed a store that's clearly used to be a Victoria Secret, right, has like very pink branding and like polka dots. But you know right when you see it that that's Victoria Secret, they took the sign down. And the door was open. And when we looked inside, we saw these group of pre-teen girls, they were all wearing what looked like almost like a martial arts outfit. But they were riding hobby horses. Let's just those like a stick, you know, it's a toy that's like a stick with a horse head on it. And they were in a circle and they were like galloping around on these hobby horses. And it was so bizarre. It was like we walked by and we're like, what is that? Then we like circled back around. So we could walk by again. And we were walking slow, so slowly. And like looking in that they noticed us, like staring at them, like I wanted to take a picture. But then I was too embarrassed, because they like saw us. But it was very strange. 


And so when I got home, I like was doing research, like, why are all these girls like on hobby horses? And that is actually an emerging sport. I'm not joking. In Finland, they have hobby horse competitions. Mostly for younger women. And it's like this craze that's spreading to other parts of the world. And you ride a toy horse, and you trot and gallop, and do leaps around a circle. 


And I felt rather pleased with myself that I found this very obscure thing in the mall. I was just filled with joy. I felt like my own skills as a signal hunter. But then I did more research. Because I like, I was like, this doesn't quite make sense. Like, you know, like, how did these people find each other? And then another big possibility, if it's not a hobby horse competition, is that it's a, it's a theater, the theater that has taken over the Victoria Secret.


Sue: Thanks, Lana. First, I have to just comment on how excited you sound with this signal. And I think that's also a testament of when you see something in real life of something that's happening.


And you can see, like you said, the position in time and where you are, and not really reaching its destination yet. But you can see it starting to change. And that's really exciting. Just versus like sometimes when we see articles, it's, it's a whole other experience when you could see it in real life. So that's, that's really exciting. 


And yeah, I don't know the last time I've heard someone say, I've discovered something really new and emerging at the mall. So that was really exciting. Raakhee, what about you? What did you find this week?


Raakhee: It is amazing that we can start with malls and land up at hobby horses. So, so cool. I think, I think that's a provocative signal. And I'll say that I think mine this week is a little less provocative, but I still learned some really interesting things. 


And I'll start with some context, something I learned as well, is that the term “mall” was actually, you know, historically in the 60s, when malls came up, it was, they were called shopping centers. It was actually the outside areas, the sort of green plazas where it was pedestrian-access people walked. Those were the malls. And eventually, people just started using the word for the whole inside structure and calling it a mall. But the genealogy of the mall is actually around it being a pedestrian space, right? That's what the word actually speaks to. But we took over the word mall.

And now we all think of these gigantic spaces, concrete blocks as the mall.


And so my signal today really is about not the mall per se, but it is about the thing that exists with the mall and probably even in, yeah, outside of malls, we just see so many of them, which is parking spaces and parking lots, right? And the ones that come with the malls. And really what we're seeing is these being transformed and taking these service parking lots and making them into public spaces, particularly parks, which I'm very excited about. 


And Sue, like you mentioned, we've spoken about parks before, we spoke about playing parks and the importance of them as community spaces, right? We need more of that. And here's this perfect prime situation of using them and turning what seems like, honestly, there's an excess of parking spaces almost everywhere from the looks of it. So it's ample of that they're not being used enough. They just lie there. So there's absolutely an opportunity there to use them.


And I have to share this, this is really funny, as I was reading these stories. And I'm going to share one particular one that, yeah, I learned so much from and is such a great illustration of a signal. But everyone, like all the people who are blogging about this and writing about this, had to make this sort of joke or comment. And so I'm going to do it. And I was going to sing, but I can't sing, so I'm just going to say it, okay? But it's: 


“Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got until it's gone. They take paradise and put up a parking lot.” 


So of course, the Joni Mitchell song and it's hilarious, but everybody brought this up as like that. Oh my goodness, right? And I guess there was a signal in her very words, right? And I think what we're seeing now is kind of the reclaiming of that is like, yeah, we took down paradise and, okay, we're going to get back to paradise again. So there's a really beautiful theme around that that I kind of saw coming up.


But the specific signal was, again, it's happened many years ago, but there was a beautiful, almost short documentary that I saw about it that was put up three months ago, which is the Austin Community College. And Lana, you picked this up as well. You said part of the mall was turned into like a learning center or there was a college there. And so the Highland Mall in Austin, which was one of the big mega ones when it came out in the 60s or whatever it did. And yeah, it was bought over by the Austin Community College that took over the whole property, but repurposed it, did what they needed to. And they took the outside spaces and turned them into these really beautiful community spaces for walking, talking, meeting, engaging. And what was really interesting though is that the architects that did that really focused on not just saying, okay, we're going to turn this into this green open space, but they looked at the history of what was there before the mall came. And that site used to be a site for the St. John's Encampment. And that meant that African-Americans from all over Texas would come there once a year for this massive event where they spoke about education and farming and learning. And it was a really important event in the lives of African-Americans historically. And so they kept that legacy really alive in bringing us back to meeting, gathering, learning space. Really beautiful story, really beautiful transformation of moving away from kind of the materialism of a mall to coming back to community and education and learning and nature, right? Like real full circle there.


So my signal was really around that. And I think I’ve seen that hopefully with a lot more parking lots turning into beautiful park areas, learning centers, community centers. And I think it's speaking to how we're shifting values and moving us away from fast food, materialism, you know, all those things and kind of back to nature. 


And there's a couple others, a beautiful success story in Dallas as well, where in downtown Dallas, the Pacific Plaza Park was also just this parking lot and then just transformed it. It's a simple park. It's just green, but the architecture is beautiful. I mean, if you look at these pictures, you'll be like, seriously, why are we not doing this all around the city? How beautiful this will make all our cities, right? And we can transform these parking lots.


And there's a movement in San Francisco. It's actually even growing in Europe around parklets. They call them kind of parklets and taking any small space and turning them into kind of like these green spaces. And people started doing that with their curbside parking as well. Take a parking spot on the curb. Someone actually did this in a town and they got fined initially. But then the community was like, hey, they were just putting plants in their parking space. Like, what's the big deal with that? And they rallied and it became a thing and more people started doing it. 


So parklets have become like a real phenomenon and people are starting to really focus on that. And this is kind of in the rewilding space. So when we have those conversations, parklets will come out and this movement to kind of create these little parks in our neighborhoods and particularly wherever there's concrete and paved streets and parking.


And really interesting to know there is actually a Park(ing) Day. So it's something that's run, I think it's the City of San Francisco is involved. There's a site people can go to. It's called GroundPlaySF.org. And you can learn more about turning sort of public spaces into joyful community spaces in the movement there in San Fran. 


But really, really cool is you can go to this site -- it's called MyParkingDay.org. There's a Park(ing) Day. The whole point is to take these parking spaces and convert them into public parks at least for a day and make them greener and more equitable spaces, right? So we can all participate. It's coming up. It's September 20th to 22nd. So keep that in mind. And it's MyParkingDay.org. Really awesome find. I was so excited just to find that. And yeah, that's that's where I'll leave it at today.


Sue: Thanks, Raakhee. What an awesome signal. I mean, you're really reclaiming the park in parking lot. I love that. And just, yeah, the focus back to community and what can be inspiring. 


Lana: I definitely think I hear a theme of joy, you know,  and I loved Raakhee with the examples that you were talking about. I've actually been to the Highland Austin Community College campus and I didn't know like how they had been like repurposed it. It is really nice.


Sue: Yeah, so I think, you know, your focus on community actually reminds me of the signal I wanted to present this week. You know, you both talked about malls becoming a relic of the past. And now maybe in this in-between, like transforming into something very new and different. 


But out of the malls that have been declining, there's actually one type of mall that has been doing very well, even post pandemic. And that is the Asian-American Mall, which I thought was really interesting. I recently saw a series of articles around the country that talk about this phenomenon of what they're kind of calling a cultural quote unquote mall, but it's really like an Asian mall. And, you know, I thought this was a big sign.


So in Minnesota, this was the place that invented the first indoor mall, and it's home to the Mall of America, which is the largest mall in the country. They are now making way to create an Asian-themed mall, which is called Asia Village, and they're also creating another mall. They don't have a name for it, but it will invite African immigrant entrepreneurs to that mall. 


You know, I saw similar signs in California that in areas with high vacancy rates at the mall, the owner, the developers are now inviting Asian or Asian-themed tenants into the mall to increase foot traffic, because the one place where there is very little to no vacancy are malls that cater to the Asian community. 


And even more so like there's this grocery chain called H Mart. It's like the largest Asian grocery chain. They are now the anchor tenant to several of these places. I mean, Lana, you're talking about the anchor tenant, how important that is. And I just say as an Asian-American, I never thought I would ever see the day that like an Asian grocery store is the anchor tenant to a shopping center. So that's just huge for me.


You know, and so I think like this is more than just the retail space. It's the community hub, where you go for cultural destination, things like that. And I kind of imagine there's more to it. So as a community, you might have health services for specific communities where they understand your language, they understand the public health issues in your community, they might have social workers available, like it can really become a big community hub. 


I think the other thing underlying it or I would hope is that there is also this like increasing acceptance of Asian culture, broadly speaking, that has been helped overall with access to pop culture, music, food, things like that through, I don't know, Netflix, Spotify. I mean, I feel like kimchi is on the menu in so many places now. And so I think if you're not Asian, also going there and being able to immerse yourself in this global culture, I think is also this increasing phenomenon.


So, I think this is just the beginning, right? So I think like it's taken this long to become a part of the culture that in 10 years, are these kind of Asian or quote unquote, like called, I don't like using this word, but like “cultural-themed malls”, are they going to be a lot more ubiquitous? And I would say I hope so because as someone who wants to get these things, I have to plan for the next trip. I go to New York or to Los Angeles, like a major city where I can go get these things.


If you can tell me on a weekend, I can go and spend an enjoyable day just a little bit far from where I live. That would be amazing. Get everything I want, invite my friends, have a new experience. I would love that. And so to me, it brings the kind of sense of fun that I had going to a mall. Like when I was a kid, it's bringing that back for me. So that's my signal.


Yeah. So I'll just end with this question. In 10 years, when you say I'm going to the mall, what does that bring up for you? What does that look like?


Raakhee: I certainly don't think it'll mean an enclosed concrete space with department stores. I think it'll mean gathering space and kind of like the word initially meant these green outside of walking pedestrian spaces. Then it became a concrete block for many years. And I think in 10 years, it will just evolve to simply mean what we see of mall, which is like outdoor malls or smaller cultural malls or places where there's theater happening and different hobbies can be enacted or community centers. And maybe it'll house all those things. And instead of saying, I'm going to the college because it's primarily a college. But you know, you can also have the H Mart and a few Korean stores there for the food you want. And the next door is the hobby horse. You know, I'm going to the mall, but that's what the mall will encompass.


Lana: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that, you know, the function that used to serve was shopping and social, right? But then, how we've shopped has changed. And now our social habits have also radically changed as well. And so, and so I love the idea of focusing on the community aspect. And I guess I'm thinking of maybe the mall is like a hub of meetups, you know, and maybe that's a place where people can pursue their different interests. And a place where all of those different interests can thrive, whether it is like, you know, food or it is like, you know, putting together puzzles or it is, you know, ice skating, like it could be whatever is your jam.


Sue: In 10 years, I don't know if people will say they're going to go to the mall. I think it's going to mean something so different for everybody. Or maybe I guess maybe the one unifying thing when you say you're going to the mall, it's not to go get your pretzel or to go, you know, get your earrings or what have you. But it may be when you say I'm going to the mall, it's like, oh, I'm going to learn something new or I'm going to go experience something new. That's why I'm going to the mall, which is a total reversal of what we've been thinking about these days. So I think that's what it's bringing up for me.


I got to say, I'm really surprised at how much happiness this episode brought to us and all the ways we can be reimagining the mall. So I'd say if you're listening to us, I wonder, is this also bringing a smile to your face the way it did to us? How have you been reimagining the mall? How have you seen the mall changing also as this in-between space?


Well, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please follow, rate, and review us. And if you want to give us some suggestions on what you'd like to hear, please go to horizonshiftlab.com and leave us a note. Thank you all and bye for now.

Comments

bottom of page