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Sep 1914 min read

Multiple Passports, One Identity?

Updated: Oct 24



In this episode, we explore the evolving nature of citizenship in our increasingly interconnected world. We discuss how wealthy individuals are building "passport portfolios" and how DNA testing is reshaping citizenship claims. We examine the concept of digital citizenship and its importance in our online lives. The conversation then turns to how athletes navigate multiple nationalities in international sports. Finally, we ponder the future of citizenship, considering global and environmental perspectives. Join us as we explore how these evolving concepts of citizenship are reshaping our sense of identity and belonging.





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Episode Transcript:

Sue: Welcome to Signal Shift, by Horizon Shift Lab. We're your hosts, Lana Price, Raakhee Natha, and Sue Chi. Each episode, we explore the latest signals in technology, culture, and society, uncovering insights that will impact our daily lives in the future. Join us as we shift perspectives, explore possibilities, and delve into real changes in our world. Curious to learn more? Go to horizonshiftlab.com.


Hello everyone, welcome to Signal Shift. This is Sue, and I'm here with Lana and Raakhee, and we are back again for another episode. So we actually met in Los Angeles for the very first time in person, and you know what? It was so wonderful and so exciting that we actually did not have time to sit down for a live recording. So instead, we're back and we're recording as usual.


For this week, I was inspired to pick this topic because recently, I saw a headline that rich families in America are basically building what they're calling passport portfolios. And it's been a hedge against kind of rising global uncertainty, way to protect their personal assets, things like that. And anyway, this headline said there were very wealthy people like Peter Thiel, who recently got citizenship status in New Zealand. Google CEO Eric Schmidt applied for citizenship in Cyprus. 


So it just made me wonder, you know, how many countries actually even allow their citizens to hold multiple nationalities? And it turns out that this is a growing trend. So according to one study in 1960, just a third of all countries allowed this, but fast forward to 2019 and more than 75% do, and that number is growing. 


So you know, we're at this point, we're seemingly for a variety of reasons, both countries are allowing dual citizenship and people are seeking them. And these things are both on the rise. I was very curious, like, what is going on here? And so Lana and Raakhee, I'm really curious, what did you find related to this week's signal?


[2:13]


Raakhee: Raakhee, I'll go first. And yeah, this is such an interesting topic. It's definitely something of an experience in my own life. Basically since about, well, in 2000 or so, right, 2000 onwards, we've seen sites like Ancestry, 23andMe and MyHeritage really become very popular, right, this sort of genetic testing about your genealogy. And it seems like there's more than 40 million people worldwide who have tested the DNA via these sites. But what I found really interesting is that people are actually using their ancestry, you know, their sort of DNA testing to claim citizenship.


And I thought that was really interesting. I didn't realize that something that could be used or was even a possibility. And that's also, it seems to be a growing trend. 


And I'm sure, you know, more than twenty years ago and definitely a decade ago, it wouldn't have been even enough to put that in, right? They wouldn't, it would have just been paperwork, you'd have to really prove through paperwork that you had parents or grandparents in a country and like a stack of paperwork to kind of prove that. And some of my family members have been through similar things when they claim citizenship across countries. So, you know, it's quite a painful process.


But now with DNA testing, it's like solidifying that in a different way. And it's very interesting in, there's somebody, his name is Richard Sayers. He appeared on the show “DNA Family Secrets” in 2022. And he was one of the first British people who used his evidence from a DNA ancestry database to gain EU citizenship. And he was, his father was an Irishman, right? And there was that. And so his father that they figured out and they used the ancestry test to prove that. And the beauty of it for this person, for him, was really genius is that he gained EU citizenship, which means that he didn't even have to go to Ireland, he's now living in Spain. So he left cold Britain for a more beautiful experience in Spain and he's really enjoying life now. So it's a really smart way to do it. 


And I know a British lady did the same thing for the USA. So it looks like even the USA is accepting, you know, this as sort of evidence and proof.


But the signal that really caught my attention was this year in July, 2024, a man from Arizona who was actually adopted, he was given up at an orphanage. So no idea of his parents, he had no connection through any paperwork to get back to his family. He did the ancestry thing and then found that he had this relative in Ireland. And Ireland gave him full citizenship just on the basis of his ancestry test, like, you know, nothing else to prove. It proved he was like literally born from Irish parents and it was, you know, through the database. And, and that was, it seems like that was a first of its kind-- that case. 


And it just got me wondering about the future. And as we all do these ancestry tests and it shows that we might have a little bit of something from different places, does it open up the rules around citizenship and for countries in Asia and other places that want to grow their populations, will it be a popular way of saying, yes, yes, like if you have it on the test, you know, we'll give you some sort of permanent residency or citizenship come to our country. So yeah, that was my signal this week.


Sue: That is so cool. Thinking about the way modern technology is now aiding actual citizenship status and thinking, oh, this is a way to remove some of the red tape to allow more freedom of movement. Amazing. Lana, what's your signal for the week?


[5:52]


Lana: Well, my signal is from the Council of Europe, which is an international body primarily focused on human rights, but they've launched a comprehensive digital citizenship program. And so the idea of digital citizenship is about being a good citizen of the digital world, just like in our physical world. You know, it's not enough to just know how to use technology. We know we need to understand how to be responsible, right? So it covers online privacy and security, but also being respectful in online discourse and recognizing the impact of our digital footprint, you know, focused on all ages, but especially for including the younger generation, you know, things that cover hate speech, cyber bullying, disinformation, you know, how to talk about controversial issues online. 


And so, you know, I thought this was really interesting because I don't know, when I thought about multiple citizenships, I was like, well, you know, we first need to be good citizens where we are in our first country, thinking about this, especially this is an election year for us, you know. And so what does it mean to be a citizen, first of all? And then this idea of being a good citizen online, you know, we don't really think about it in that way necessarily. But it's true we're like all living together and cooperating together in the digital world. And so just defining that I thought was a pretty cool, a pretty cool way to think about citizenship.


Sue: Thanks, Lana. Yeah, you're opening my mind thinking about the different definitions of multiple citizenship beyond nationality as citizenship, right? So if you're thinking about digital citizenship, what other kinds of citizenship do we have or will we have in the future? So really fascinating what that holds.


[8:01]


So yeah, my signal I think is more along the lines of where Raakhee was going. I think Raakhee, you know, what I'm gathering from your signal is really around, you know, ways to move in certain cases -- of the person moving to Spain or even citizenship as identity in the case of adoption as well. 


So I was just thinking, what other ways do people use citizenship? And coming off the summer from the Olympics, I recall that it seemed to me watching the Olympics, there were more and more athletes that had dual citizenship or multiple citizenship. And so there might have been an athlete I had assumed was of one nationality, but was playing for a different country. This was really highlighted to me in the basketball sport because of Joel Embiid and, you know, how France was basically heckling him as soon as he got there because he decided to play for the US instead of France. And I learned that he could have played for Cameroon, for France or for the United States. And he had gotten basically French and US citizenship in quick succession.


But you know, he's not the only one. And so I also read that Australia actually quickly approved citizenship for three athletes ahead of the games in three different sports. And it goes way back in 2000, Qatar actually acquired the entire Bulgarian weightlifting team in exchange for citizenship. 

So you know, it's all through kind of like extraordinary and special talents or special situations in some of these cases, even though there are also athletes that got it through ancestry and things like that, but I thought, you know, if this continues, whether it's specifically for sports or not, I just see that, you know, it may increase. And as a spectator of the sporting event, it's very confusing to me to understand who to cheer for at the Olympics. And usually I like to cheer for the people, right?


And so I'm like, well, if Joel Embiid plays for France next time, will I cheer for him or not? So it's this huge conundrum of, well, it really depends on what actual citizenship you have. So yes, I thought that was really interesting.


So yeah, so we've got different themes of citizenship here, both from like the physical aspect of it, the identity, the values building, just even what defines the realm of citizenship. So I was really curious as you were both researching, were there any themes or trends that you're picking up on?


[10:32]


Lana: Well, I think, I mean, I guess a couple of things. One thing that I found that was interesting was, you know, some of the EU was increasing pressure on the member states to actually tighten up some of these Golden Visa programs.


But I think for me, the big theme, and the thing I guess I'm curious about is how, you know, even in that case of the athletes, Sue, or in some of the examples that you were saying, Raakhee, like, how do people manage being multiple citizens? Like, what, what are their, what do they consider, not just the benefits, but what are the responsibilities that come with being a citizen of multiple nations? And so that's what I'm curious about. I have a hard time managing my one life and my one location. And so that's what I would want to know in the day-to-day.


[11:32]


Raakhee: Yeah, I was going to say, oh gosh, yeah, there's so much, so much to unpack here. I think it's a good point, Lana, I think. It's so interesting. Sue. I think you've tried to point this out. It's like, it's really embedded in identity, right? I think about, I believe Africa is the same, and India too, but India, of course, has even higher migration, right? But you almost don't have a choice, but to leave where you come from, otherwise you're not going to get opportunities, right? You're not going to grow. Sometimes it's conflict, sometimes it's something else, right? So all across Africa, even South Africa, we have incredible sports people, just people really skilled. So the sports opportunities are really crucial, right? And people take those up, take those opportunities up because, yeah, it's a, it's a very different level of lifestyle for them, right? It changes their family's trajectory.


Yeah, it's kind of about managing, about that it's so interesting, because people don't often choose it like some people in Europe are buying citizenship because they have the privilege. But for a lot of people, it's a very important avenue, it's a life changing opportunity. Even for people from India, it changes the financial trajectory of their family because one dollar is giving them 50, 60, 100 times more value for their money back home. That's why they send money, you know, back to their families and that sort of thing, right? So a family was in a mud hut can now go into a smaller apartment because of that one person who moved to the U.S. and earns differently. 


So there is that reality in this, this India, I mean, so you mentioned this, but some countries don't allow dual citizenship and India is one of those. And I'd always like, I see all my Indian friends who come to the U.S. and then become U.S. citizens because you, of course, want to, and you stay in for such a long time, right? If you've been somewhere for 10, 15 years, you also do take on that identity, do you want to be a part of that, right? That's what you're living every day, but you don't want to give up your heritage either and yet, for Indians, they’re forced to, they have to give up the Indian citizenship when they, you know, become a citizen of another country and that's so rough. 


South Africa is not like that. It allows dual citizenship. So it's, it's a very interesting dynamic, but I think it's so deeply woven with identity that I think that day-to-day management is easy. It's more the identity question and it's when you're not denied something, it's taken away. I wonder what that feels like for people being like, oh, okay, you know, now you're American, you're not Indian anymore, but you're physically very much Indian. And of course, who's not going to perceive you as Indian in the U.S., right? So I don't know, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot there.


Sue: Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned the policy with India because I also saw in the EU, Germany recently passed a law this year that gets rid of their restrictions on dual citizenship and also makes it easier to acquire German citizenship. Of course, there's this whole ripple effect because now people of other nationalities are wondering how to apply. And there were a couple articles related specifically to Indian citizens because they want to acquire German citizenship. But now they're this whole conundrum because exactly like you said, Raakhee, there's this whole identity and more tied to your Indian nationality, like what are you really going to do? And you want to take advantage of some of these opportunities, too.  


And that is an economic value, it doesn't go towards the cultural values you have and just like, how do you make sense of yourself as a person where you're living in that moment? But you can see, especially for different kinds of skill sets, experiences, countries will start to try to figure out, you know, how they can use this, I guess, for mutual advantage. So I definitely want to pay attention to this going forward.


Yeah. I'm also curious, you know, Lana, you brought up this interesting notion of different kinds of citizenship from digital. And I was wondering in the future, are you seeing any other types of citizenships that may arise based on current trends that we're seeing?


[15:33]


Lana: I mean, the thing that I was hoping to find, you know, what I was like sort of looking for was being a good citizen of the earth, like if that was something that we can also, when we think about what it means to be a good citizen, are there principles that we can agree on that we can say, this is what it means to be a good citizen of the earth? This is what it means to be a good citizen of our online discourse, in addition to being a good citizen of our country. Yeah, that's definitely the thing that came to mind. 


Sue: Raakhee, how about you?


Raakhee: Yeah, I think there's this other side of this as well about, you know, to be better, maybe citizens of the earth, it's about do these boundaries serve us or not, are they fluid? Do we just change that entire system and structure and allow more fluidity of movement, but take away the need to even say, oh, you need to have a citizenship of a country, right? If there was more fluidity of movement and opportunity and how we could have that in different places while still protecting people from, yeah, crime or, you know, those sorts of things, right? I guess as we're becoming more of one world and we want to protect the whole world, right? There's like, there's another layer of that, like you can say, okay, why do we even have that? Do we have a global sort of mobile citizenship thing where you can move around, but you come from this country, but you can move around the world, would take away the need of a full citizenship? And I wonder what sort of discussions are happening in the UN or places like that around these sorts of things and gathering that, right? Because it's like, yeah, should I get now five citizenships, like for the sports player? Or do we just change those norms of movement and how opportunities can exist for somebody who needs to move between different places, right? And the focus becoming about being a good citizen of the earth, like you said, right? That's the most important, because we're all burning together, right? 


But it makes me think about other things like space, what's going to happen with space and should citizenship be related to space? And then I also think about, we look at the economic side of this, but what about the, literally, like the challenges we're going to have with climate and what that's going to do to different countries and how we're going to have to move with that and how rules around migration and citizenship are going to change for that as well.


Lana: Yeah, just in response to that, I was also curious about, I mean, we do know that certain countries are going to be more impacted than others by like rising sea levels, for example, right? Like whole island nation states could be severely impacted, projected to sink, you know, disappear. And so what does that mean for the citizens of those countries? And so, yeah, I think this idea of anticipating increasing levels of climate migration. And you know, how nation states will cooperate or not, to anticipate like that flow and what citizens are supposed to do when their countries are less and less inhabitable, you know, so I think that's also a very valid question.


Sue: Yeah, the very notion of citizenship may just completely change into one of maybe resources or is that, Raakhee, my head exactly went to interstellar just thinking, are we really going to bring the way we've created countries here into space? Maybe we can rethink this, guys, but yeah, thinking about that and then if sustainability is impacted, you know, you might have water-abundant places where now you're changing your identity of nationality into one of like the resources you can offer your people or the ones you can trade. So yeah, that'll completely change the way trade is done, politics, like, yeah, it can really fundamentally reshape what we're thinking. 


So well, I guess there is that kind of blue visa, right, thinking about sustainability that we talked about and we discovered a couple months ago. So yeah, there are some signals that we're starting to see.


So everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Signal Shift. I'm curious if you've ever thought about potentially getting another citizenship, what that might be or what you're seeing for yourself in the future. But as always, if you like this episode, please follow us, rate and review, or if there's a topic that you'd really like for us to cover, please go to www.horizonshiftlab.com and leave us a message. Well, thank you so much and we'll see you next week. Bye for now.


[20:22]

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