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Sep 2612 min read

The Unexpected Rise of Psychedelics in Corporate America


In this eye-opening episode, we explore the surprising emergence of psychedelics in mainstream society, particularly in corporate settings. We discuss how companies are offering psychedelic-assisted therapy as part of employee benefits, the growing trend of microdosing among professional women, and the rise of psychedelic leadership retreats. We also examine the potential benefits and risks, ethical considerations, and the creation of new job roles like Psychedelic Guides. Join us as we uncover how these powerful substances are being rebranded from countercultural to corporate, and consider the implications for workplace dynamics, mental health treatment, and society at-large. Are psychedelics the next frontier in employee wellness and leadership development?





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Episode Transcript:

Raakhee: Welcome to Signal Shift, by Horizon Shift Lab. We're your hosts, Lana Price, Raakhee Natha, and Sue Chi. Each episode, we explore the latest signals in technology, culture, and society, uncovering insights that will impact our daily lives in the future. Join us as we shift perspectives, explore possibilities, and delve into real changes in our world. Curious to learn more? Go to horizonshiftlab.com.


[0:40]


Hello and welcome to Signal Shift, I'm Raakhee and today is going to be a trip, or at least trippy, because we are talking psychedelics. 


And what psychedelics are is actually powerful psychoactive substances that alter perception and mood and affect numerous cognitive processes. They are often called hallucinogens, but that's a bit of a stretch because in small doses, they don't often always cause hallucinations. 

Interesting and important to note that some substances truly fall under the banner of psychedelics.


Hallucinogens are often a more generalized term, right? It's to refer to substances that aren't even actually psychedelics. As an example, ayahuasca is a plant-based psychedelic, but ketamine on the other hand is something that in a clinical sense, they would call a dissociative anesthetic that has hallucinogenic effects.


So all the technicalities aside, I hope I'm not losing anyone there, but people are starting to speak about it a lot more. We're seeing a lot more clinical trials happening on them. We're seeing a growing acceptance and even an openness to say they might have useful properties for us. And so we're seeing a lot more studies in them and a lot more use cases and saying how can we use this in the right way for us. For example, a big one being in treating PTSD. 


So I am really excited to hear what you both have to share about psychedelics and also if you've had any personal experiences with this. Yeah, who wants to share?


[2:16]


Lana: This is Lana. I'll go. So the signal that I found is, which really surprised me, is that there's an increasing number of employers who are giving their employees access to psychedelic-assisted therapy as part of their health benefits. And so there is one company called Enthea and they are a third-party administrator of health insurance plans and they offer psychedelic medicine as a workplace benefit. 


So this year, Dr. Bronner’s, the company that makes the soaps, they became the first in the United States to offer ketamine therapy as part of their employee health coverage. 


I also saw a story about another company, which is a CBD company in Utah where the leadership team came together to do ketamine sessions as a leadership retreat activity. And they wanted to do it for, quote, open and honest conversation and communication work. And so ketamine is overseen by doctors and so they had sort of like a doctor come in to oversee this session. And then I guess, you know, one of the things that they realized is that things quickly get weird. We learned, quote, we learned quickly, it's a little too intimate because you're not in control of your body and you say things. But they did also, I guess, find some benefits and, quote, ego dissolution. 


So anyway, you know, I think clearly companies are, and it sounds like the leaders who have experienced personal benefit with this are trying to offer that, right, like they’re believers, so then they want their employees to also benefit. 


So yeah, I think there's a lot of interesting third-order consequences that come when psychedelics are introduced into the workplace. So I think this will definitely be something to watch. 


Raakhee: If we couple that with like pet benefits and then ketamine therapy, I don't know, employment benefits are looking really cool these days. So yeah, very nice, thanks, Lana. And Sue, yeah, what did you have?


[5:09]


Sue: I love what you found, Lana, about kind of the corporate side of what's happening with some of the psychedelics, because I got to say, I wasn't sure what I would find during our signal search this week, and I have to say, I was surprised how many business news outlets were covering psychedelics. And this went from like the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Business Insider, and even the latest issue of the Harvard Business Review has coverage of psychedelics and use of it in kind of corporate settings. But I think the thing that I, you know, a lot of the coverage had to do with kind of the rise of biotech and stuff like that, but I found this one piece that really covered the rise of microdosing, specifically psilocybin, with women in the workplace. 


And so try these quotes on for size: “It's the new glass of wine.” “It's the new lip gloss you want to share with your friends.” And when it came to some pre-packaged psychedelics, it's totally packaged for “the 40-year-old woman who is risk averse.”


And so it turns out, you know, this article in the Wall Street Journal, they covered that this use was really for working moms specifically in high-powered, high-stressful jobs. And they were using this for a variety of reasons. And the age range was pretty much like mid-30s and above. 


And so some of the anecdotes of why women were doing this was because it was like treating some of the stress and anxiety and depression that comes with some of the high stress that they have, both juggling their job and kids, had to deal with postpartum depression, menopause, and even going through identity issues, becoming empty nesters the older they got. 


And so, you know, one anecdote, this one woman said in particular, she talked about this with ten of her friends and found out that eight of them were microdosing. So, you know, as far as I know, there are clinical trials being funded, but like, there's no approved medical use for this yet, right? And correct me if I'm wrong. That was my understanding, even though there's a lot of trials in the pipeline right now.


So I was like, what's going on here? And I was just saying, like, this is such a mouthful when you think about all the issues that these women are juggling in particular and some of the ways that they're using psilocybin as treatment. A lot of it had to do with like mental clarity and focus and alleviating some of these issues that essentially made them feel as they were 20-something again. 


And so I found this older article in the MIT Technology Review that was talking about, you know, if these trials really are approved, then women stand to benefit the most because they were saying maybe some of this has to do with just historically how the medical and healthcare system has traditionally been exclusive of marginalized populations. And it really wasn't until more recently that they consider sex and gender in the impact of treatment and clinical diagnoses. And so women have had to go out and find solutions on their own as has so many other marginalized populations.


So it was really curious to see like what kind of solution this might bring. But yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens because I know there's like a long road ahead with some of the FDA approvals and things like that. 


But you know, I think what I was taking away from this was just, you know, whether it's psychedelics or not, like you really, there's no one solution for everybody and you need to figure out how to be your own advocate because it's your own body and nobody's going to take care of it for you. So you've really got to go and find out, like what the latest updates are, how people who are like you are being treated and finding out what's best for you. So I thought that was interesting.


Raakhee: Wow, that's so interesting, Sue. I didn't even think of, you know, the angle from a gender perspective and to your point, it’s like, yeah, we're finally studying things on women now and how they affect women. And will be really, really interesting to see what they find in the space with that. That's, that's really exciting and very interesting. 


I think like the business, the corporate sort of theme is coming out here very strong. And I, you know, I think that's where I was sitting with, with my one as well. Pretty similar, Lana, to the one you had. So I'll sort of mention it, but I'll go into some aspect of it that I guess could count as my signal. 


[9:54]


But that was that the sort of leadership retreats that are actually retreats where you go and you take psychedelics are growing and becoming more popular. And so there's been, I think especially this year, earlier this year, there were a lot of articles that focused on that and have been talking about that.


And business is really saying, like, if we go on a retreat, the point is that we are more creative, right? We come up with great ideas and it's quite apt. We literally came out of our retreat not so long ago ourselves--where no psychedelics were used--but it's interesting to see that, yeah, organizations are doing that and saying that, you know, there's increased neuroplasticity and you're more adaptable, you're more open, you're more flexible. And so all those connections get made and you have great ideas and it really benefits the company. And so they see the ROI on that kind of retreat as much higher than like, oh, we're going for retreat and we're going to bond through typical activities, et cetera, right? So there's a case there and so there's definitely a growth in that and people who specialize in that. 


But what I found really interesting in this, I found a few months back as well, is I saw a job posting on LinkedIn that said Psychedelic Guide (Integration Coach), right? And I was like, okay. And I found it really interesting and I looked into it and there was this company called Mindbloom and they offer at-home ketamine therapy, work with a doctor and a coach, which is this role, but it's self-administered, right? It's at-home ketamine therapy, which is really, yeah, it's very interesting, mind-blowing to me, but at least very interesting, but yeah, I saw this job profile that is a legit job profile.


They are these coaches that, you know, they hire, of course, and they would train you up to be a coach who supports people on their journey. And when I saw that posting, it hit me that I was like, oh, this is a job. This is an actual job. When you think about jobs of the future, you often think of, I don't know, something AI-related or something like that, but this is a really interesting, I think idea around, wow, these are the jobs of the future. I don't think five years ago, anybody would have said, hey, have you ever thought about maybe becoming a psychedelic guide, right, or coach?


And I think there's only going to be more demand for things like this and more opportunities. 

So yeah, that was my one with the business one, but I think we all stuck to the corporate realm, which is really very interesting as well. So what are any thoughts, reactions, what's coming up?


[12:32]


Sue: This is Sue. I'll go. I guess just the first impression is some of the language around the use of this, over and over I saw in these articles, the reasons for use, some of it was like productivity, creativity, focus, clarity, all these things that have high value in the workplace. I just never would have associated that with psychedelic use. That's just not where my brain was. So yeah, I just thought that was really, really interesting in how long those associations have been in place, how much it has it been growing. And yeah, is it now just because of all this coverage, is it now like getting to be more normalized? I have no idea.


Lana: Yeah, that's really interesting, like a branding for psychedelics, right, like a complete change from what used to be maybe associated with something that's like kind of hippie and fringe to something that's very acceptable in the corporate sector, like productive. That's a really, really good point. 


Yeah, I guess I started thinking about, oh, you know, if this were to become more normalized, some concerns around like ethical concerns, right, like what if you don't want to participate? Just like a lot of other, you know, workplace events where maybe it's very focused on drinking, right, and you don't want to. So it's just another thing to consider around kind of like coercion or, you know, fairness for everyone. 


I'm curious about how it impacts one's decision-making, like for better, for worse, and accountability, like what happens when you do something under the influence. 


I'm imagining potentially more HR involvement, right, like policies and procedures specific to this, legal challenges. So, yeah, I think it's super interesting to imagine kind of where this can go. 

I mean, even let's say a designated area in the office, right, specific for trips, like we can think about like the different implications of what this could mean if it gets taken further.


Raakhee: There's a whole legal side of this, that is, right, which is why, I mean, there's even a question, where is it legal, where isn't it, and which one is legal here? Which one isn't, right, in the US and other countries, and so I think, yeah, the legal space around this, Lana, to your point, there's a lot of questions and I can only imagine with HR. 


Then I think I'm just, you know, as we're having this session, I'm thinking about how many people I know, who take psychedelics, and at least then on the other end of the spectrum, it's not psychedelics, at least they’re taking CBD. I'm curious, what it's like within your networks, and are you seeing people, if you feel, you know, able to share.


Sue: You know, from the Wall Street Journal article, it's like a very normalized practice for some people, like there was one woman who was saying, you know, this is my morning routine, I get the kids ready, blah, blah, blah, then I take my breakfast, I take my supplements, including all these vitamins, and this one microdose. Like that's just what her day is like, it's not this special thing. So I thought that was very surprising, but you know, is, if these things are really approved and distributed more broadly, at least in the United States, is their world where, yeah, this just becomes part of your daily supplement routine. And in this case, they were, you know, talking about, you know, women, you know, getting older, like, yes, it's just one of the supplements for your vitality, oh my gosh, I don't know.


Lana: I think it's always healthy to be, to your point, Sue, like really aware of what's going on, and aware of the trends, and I think it is useful to, you know, follow those with our own, you know, curiosity to see where they can, where they lead. 


I mean, I saw, I think, tell me if you guys saw this, that even like MDMA, like Ecstasy was up for review by the FDA, and they recently, I think, ruled against it, right? And so, like, who would have ever thought, like, something that would be up for approval? 


Sue: Yeah, that's, that's really true. And I think part of the awareness, the good news is if this is something of interest to you -- there is so many, there are so many centers being funded for the exploration and discovery of the actual impact of this on people, right? And I was surprised to see how many universities have, like, psychedelic research or clinical medical research centers for this, and so, yeah, I do think you're going to get a lot more information in the coming years of what this is going to be, especially as so many more companies are also trying to take this to trial, so, yeah, interesting to see what we find.


Raakhee: And I think about the point you made, Sue, and for me, I definitely noticed, and it's probably more with CBD-related sort of products, more on the lighter end, but absolutely the women that I know. It's the woman in friend circles, and it's the mothers. There's a component here of stress and being called out, and you have a career, and you have two kids, and you know what I mean? And so, I personally kind of noticed, observed that, and women, I would have never expected that. So there's a very interesting dimension around women, and exploring that in the link to stress.


Okay, so I think, yeah, I think that it's, again, this is another one you could talk about for hours.


This is so much to explore here. I think the purpose of today was to just introduce the popularity of psychedelics in society, as we are clearly seeing, and kind of raise questions about it, so, yeah, just the starting point. 


I hope you enjoyed today's episode. As always, please go to horizonshiftlab.com, and we have full transcripts, we have all the links, everything will give you even more context in our episodes, so do go and check it out, and let us know what you think of today's episode, and we will catch you again next week. Thanks, and bye for now.


[19:40]

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